NFL

Big Blue View mailbag: NFL Draft fallout edition

Published

8 months ago

May 4, 2024

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Edwin Gommers asks: Have you heard anything about the injury recovery of last year’s UDFA darling Bryce Ford-Wheaton and how do you see him fit in the 2024 roster following the draft? If healthy, Wheaton, Nabers, Slayton and Hyatt could provide some serious speed for the offense.

Ed says: Edwin, I have not heard anything about Ford-Wheaton. I think people need to pump the brakes if they are expecting Ford-Wheaton to be a major part of the 2024 offense. Like he was last year, he will be in competition for a roster spot as a depth receiver/special teams player and, honestly, he’s more likely to land on the practice squad.

The Giants have Malik Nabers, Darius Slayton, Wan’Dale Robinson, Jalin Hyatt and Isaiah Hodgins. Gunner Olszewski and Isaiah McKenize might be competing for one spot. If everyone is healthy, that leaves guys like Ford-Wheaton, Miles Boykin and everyone else competing for a seventh wide receiver spot — with no guarantee the Giants will keep seven receivers.

Remember 2022 sixth-round pick Darrian Beavers? He was impressive in his first training camp, tore an ACL, missed the entire year and spent last year on the practice squad. Marcus McKethan, 2022 fifth-round pick, wasn’t ready for prime time last year after missing all of 2022 with an ACL. Don’t expect Ford-Wheaton to suddenly become a primary receiver. If he does, that is a huge bonus.

Tom Targonski asks: I’ve been a Giants fan since growing up in Brooklyn in the 1970s, so I’ve been there for all the ups and downs. I know the offensive line was addressed in free agency, BUT with all the experts saying that this draft was loaded with Olinemen, I can’t believe the Giants didn’t pick one at all. The line has been the worst performing unit for many seasons now. We all know depth is a huge issue in the NFL. Your thoughts?

Ed says: Tom, I have to admit it was a surprise to me, as well. Then again, I always say that free agency is a tell as to what a team intends to do in the draft. The Giants signed FIVE veteran offensive lineman who have started double-digit games in the NFL. Jon Runyan Jr. and Jermaine Eluemunor will be starters. Aaron Stinnie might be a starter at guard if Eluemunor ends up at right tackle. Center Austin Schlottman and right tackle Matt Nelson are experienced players.

The Giants still have young players Joe Schoen drafted in Josh Ezeudu and Marcus McKethan. Perhaps new offensive line coach Carmen Bricillo can get the value from them that the Giants hoped for.

Where was the right spot for the Giants to take an offensive lineman? I am not buying the smoke that the Giants would have traded up to No. 3 for Notre Dame tackle Joe Alt, or even taken him at No. 6.

In Round 2, the Giants took a badly-needed probable starting safety in Tyler Nubin. Four offensive tackles and a center were taken in Round 2 after the pick of Nubin. With Evan Neal, John Michael Schmitz and Eluemumor the Giants weren’t taking any of those players.

In Round 3, they took cornerback Andru Phillips. Everybody who follows the Giants knew they needed a cornerback capable of starting, and the Giants felt he was the guy. Guard Cooper Beebe went to the Dallas Cowboys three picks later. Looking at the roster, what is more valuable — a potential starting cornerback or a guard who probably have been a depth piece initially?

On Day 3, there were offensive linemen I liked. I mocked guard Christian Mahogany of Boston College to the Giants a number of times. Honestly, my $.02 is picking one would have been a good thing. Still, anyone taken there would likely have been a developmental option.

The Giants needed a tight end and got one in Theo Johnson. They liked running back Tyrone Tracy and linebacker Darius Muasau better than any of the offensive linemen available.

I say this all the time, but you have limited resources, have to make choices and can’t get everything you want.

Carl Pelligrino asks: With a potential WR1 in the house and an upgraded OL through free agency (fingers crossed!), other than staying healthy, what do you think Daniel Jones needs to do in 2024 for the Giants to not be in the market for a 2025 QB1, either under an unmodified contract or under a renegotiated contract? Do you think he is nothing more to the Giants than a bridge QB at this point?

Ed says: Carl, there is a distinct possibility Jones is a bridge quarterback to whoever comes next. Is that somebody in the 2025 NFL Draft? In that a veteran quarterback? We’re already hearing names like Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins tossed around. Shoot, there is also speculation that Drew Lock might have a chance to push Jones to the bench.

If Jones stays healthy, plays, and plays as well or better than he did in 2022, then he leaves the Giants with a decision. I don’t know who the Giants’ quarterback will be in 2025, but I would still say odds are it is not going to be Jones. Of course, entering the 2022 season that is also how I felt about 2023.

Raymond Dansereau asks: For me the big DJ problem is how much better the offense looked with Taylor at QB. I don’t see how you want a QB so bad, you’re offering a future first for one, but then turn around and don’t bother. And with next year’s crop looking weak and our odds of another high pick (hopefully) low, are we on the cusp of QB hell?

Ed says: Raymond, some would say the Giants have been in QB hell ever since Jones got the job.

I want to focus on this part of your statement: “I don’t see how you want a QB so bad, you’re offering a future first for one, but then turn around and don’t bother.”

The Giants did extensive work on the quarterback class. Every indication is the quarterback Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll settled on really wanting to go forward with was Drake Maye. They couldn’t get him.

The situation the Giants are in is that Daniel Jones is on the roster in 2024 regardless. So is Drew Lock. Whatever rookie they drafted was probably not going to play until late in the season if and when the Giants were out of contention and the organization felt the player was ready. Any quarterback choice they made was really about 2025, not 2024, anyway.

After all the study they did the Giants weren’t convinced that J.J.McCarthy or Michael Penix was likely enough to be a star that it was worth passing on Malik Nabers. They weren’t convinced one of those guys was the answer.

I always say ‘don’t take a quarterback just to take a quarterback.’ You’re marrying the guy. You’re putting the future of the franchise, and your jobs, in his hands. You better be in love with him. Will they be right? I don’t know. You don’t know. They don’t know.

I think what they do know is they still have a decision to make on how to proceed at quarterback after the 2024 season.

Gregg Wanless asks: Now that the dust has settled somewhat, I’m trying to take a stab at our opening defensive lineup as we start the season. I realize how silly that exercise is, but let’s give it a whirl. My going in premise is the assumption that our new D Coordinator is going to play a 4-3. I realize that statement is a relic of the past to some degree and that down and distance dictates what’s on the field. But let’s assume his basic philosophy is to usually apply pressure with a 4 man rush. How do you see it play out with our personnel? Overstated, we have one outstanding DL in Dex and some average veterans and yet to be proven recent draftees. On the next level it’s better — Burns, Thibs, Okereke, Micah, Ojulari. To me, this suggests Burns might be a down DE at the very least. Or are all of these questions of little importance and we will basically just deploy our best run stuffers on downs we think those are the tendencies and put our best collection of rushers, coverage guys on what we think are passing downs?

Ed says: Gregg, Shane Bowen is not a base 4-3 defensive coordinator. The Tennessee Titans used a base 3-4 defense, and based on the personnel they had they were often in a 4-2-5 ‘Big Nickel’ sub package.

Yes, there will be times when Brian Burns and Kayvon Thibodeaux will rush with their hands in the dirt in that 4-2-5 set. Sometimes there will be two down linemen and the edge defenders standing up. Wink Martindale was a 3-4 coordinator, but there were times when the edge defenders had their hands in the ground as defensive ends. That is the case with pretty much every defense that is a base 3-4.

Yes, Bowen’s philosophy is that he prefers a four-man rush. He has been clear about that. Four-man rush, though, doesn’t mean 4-3 defense. It really is worrying about something that isn’t that important when trying to figure out what a team’s base defense is. Teams are matching up and playing in sub-packages of some sort based on down and distance more than they are in what might be considered their base defense.

Stephen Goodyear asks: This is more about who the Giants could get as opposed to who they have post draft. What OL might be available and of interest – via cuts, contract squabbles, trade etc – to the Giants before the season kicks off? For example, assuming that Neal winds up at RG, OT depth could be questionable depending on what you think of Matt Nelson. Or you could think the OL is a finished product. Thoughts?

Ed says: Stephen, nothing is ever absolutely a “finished product”. If the Giants need to or think they can still upgrade the roster they will do so. Justin Pugh is unsigned and still has obvious interest in being a Giant. Maybe that happens at some point.

Right now, I couldn’t tell you who might become available. You never know what another team will do, but that is why the pro personnel department is tasked with being up to date on every player in the league.

Here is a look at the free agents currently available.

Bryan Glahn asks: Do you think the Giants passing on a quarterback is a reflection on the coaching staff’s belief in Jones, Lock, DeVito being successful with more weapons and a revamped offensive line or more so them realizing the if they don’t succeed this year they will be gone regardless so they don’t have time to develop a rookie QB?

Ed says: Bryan, none of the above, really.

Until passing on/being unable to secure a quarterback in the draft, Joe Schoen never expressed confidence in Daniel Jones beyond 2024. I don’t think that has changed. I don’t think the Giants have any idea right now who the quarterback will be in 2025.

As for the job status of Schoen and Brian Daboll, they can’t operate thinking they are going to get fired. If they were operating that way, to be honest, I think they would have selected J.J. McCarthy. Do that, they can go to ownership and say ‘we need at least two years because Jones is still here and we don’t think McCarthy will be ready to play full-time until 2025.’ So, you pitch for a window to work with the new quarterback.

I think it was about the Giants feeling better about Malik Nabers’ chance to be a star than about the chance McCarthy, Michael Penix or Bo Nix would be a quality NFL quarterback. That’s all. They weren’t in love with those guys, so they chose to build the roster the best they could for whoever the next guy will be.

Only time will tell if they made the right decision.

John Foti asks: I’m pretty much in sync with you on feelings about the Giants’ picks. I like Theo Johnson. I like big tight ends, not 230 pound guys who look like wide receivers. Taking an undersized linebacker in the 6^th round surprised me. I thought for sure they would go DL or OT. Maybe they would have gone QB if Milton was still on the board. It was puzzling the NE took him.

By not taking an OT, it tells us that Evan Neal is going to be given at least one more chance to show he can play tackle but does it tell us that they have confidence in Neal? They still don’t have much depth at the position, especially if Neal doesn’t improve.

Does it tell us that they really like defensive tackles they already have or they just didn’t like the defensive tackles as much as the defensive backs available when they were picking?

Ed says: John, the Giants didn’t tell us during the draft they were going to give Evan Neal another chance at right tackle. They have been telling us that for months, and I have been writing it. Whether people have chosen to believe that is up to them.

As I have been saying, the Giants had only six selections. They had to make some hard choices, and you can argue that each of their first five picks is at least an option to fill and immediate need. They like linebacker Darius Muasau enough to select him rather than make a need pick for a young offensive linemen. We will see if they are right.

Back to right tackle. If the Giants don’t like what they see from Neal, Jermaine Eluemunor will likely slide to that spot. He played right tackle pretty well for the Las Vegas Raiders the last two seasons, and that flexibility is one of the reasons he was signed. Matt Nelson, signed as a free agent, has starting right tackle experience. Tyre Phillips is still a free agent. I don’t have any new information, but the best guess would be that the Giants are monitoring his health as he recovers his late-season torn quad. Maybe he will be added once he can pass a physical. With all of that, I would push back on the notion that the Giants don’t have options if Neal fails again.

Doug Mollin asks: I guess we shouldn’t be surprised at all of the 2025 mock drafts already out there.

However, I was kind of surprised to see USA Today’s 2025 mock with the Giants picking #1 overall.

Took a quick look around and here are a few others:

Walter Football #2
PFN #3
CBS #5
PFF #5
Bleacher Report #6

Do you put any stock in these early predictions of another rough season for the Giants? What is your realistic expectation for the 2024 season at this point in time?

Ed says: Doug, I put zero stock in those draft positions. If you want to do a mock this early, you have to put teams somewhere. And you have to put names of players next to teams. Whatever. All of it means nothing right now.

As for expectations, I don’t know. I don’t expect the Giants to be great, I think that’s a given. I don’t expect them to go 2-15. Maybe they win five games. Maybe they win nine games. I think the hope would be that the product looks better than it did a year ago. That’s all I can really say at this point.

Henry Mildener asks: I’m rooting for Dante Miller. From foster care to Ivy League to a bureaucratic error that left him ineligible to be drafted, I hope he succeeds. I know it’s too early but how far down would you put him on the RB roster.

Ed says: Henry, entering OTAs Miller is a long shot. Devin Singletary is RB1. Gary Brightwell is still on the roster. The Giants drafted Tyrone Tracy Jr. this year and Eric Gray last year. Those four players would, as of now, clearly be ahead of Miller. Jashaun Corbin and Deon Jackson both have NFL experience.

Miller is a great story. Maybe he will make it. He has a long climb to make, though.

Jason LaBombard asks: In the days after the draft I’ve seen a lot of takes on Daniel Jones being the starter, a lot of talk about the Giants not drafting McCarthy at six, and apparently there is a deluge of people out there with their own personal metrics that they utilize to judge the “value” of the Giant’s draft. For me metrics are like hands and people should keep them to themselves, but that’s a hard digression. What I’m wondering about is this: do you think the Giants went far enough in their pursuit of Maye? If the reports of the parameters that are out there are accurate, I would say the Giant’s offer falls within the boundaries of “fair”. We could tussle about how fair: very fair, fair to middling…whatever if we can at least agree it was fair. But is fair where you hit the breaks when it comes to the guy you love at QB; I know this discussion has taken place in a vacuum but I don’t think it’s happened yet within the context of what occurred last Thursday. It’s a really tough one when you consider all things and admittedly I don’t even know where I stand, but I do wonder if the Giant’s brass gets beat up in a few years over the QB question in this draft it might not be about McCarthy but about whether retrospectively they went hard enough after Maye. Who knows if the Pats would have moved off no matter what. Curious to know what you think.

Ed says: Jason, the Giants reportedly offered their 2025 first-round (and this year’s No. 6, of course) to move up for Drake Maye? Should they have offered more? I might have sweetened the offer with a 2025 third-round pick, but that probably wasn’t going to move the needle. The Minnesota Vikings reportedly offered picks 11 and 23, along with their 2025 first-rounder. The only way the Giants could have competed with that was to offer their 2026 first-rounder, as well. Considering how much work the Giants still have to do in building their roster, that seems to me like a bridge too far.

GM Joe Schoen said before the draft that “there’s a walk-away point on everything.” The Giants either thought more than two first-round picks was their “walk-away point,” or realized that New England wasn’t going to budge until the Giants had made an offer that might cripple their ability to build a team around the quarterback.

I’m OK with that.

Craig Hoddeson asks: You’ve mentioned many times that a team can’t solve all it’s issues in a single draft and roster building is a continuing process.

Let’s assume that the Giants are injury free through the early part of camp. Schoen identifies a camp cut or quality FA veteran that would compete for a starting role or a very high number of snaps; someone that he will pay above vet minimum. Based on the current depth chart, which position group should he target?

DL/DE – (guys that play with their hand in the dirt)
CB
RB
OL
Edge

Ed says: Craig, for me that’s an easy answer. Cornerback. They did add Jordan Phillips as a veteran defensive tackle. They traded for Brian Burns on the edge and have Azeez Ojuklari as their third guy out there. They have drafted running backs in each of the last two years, and have Devin Singletary as RB1. They have signed five veteran offensive linemen with starting experience.

They did draft Andru Phillips in Round 3, but I am still not convinced they have an answer as to who will start at boundary cornerback opposite Tae Banks. If they can find a starting-caliber outside cornerback at some point, that is the move I think I would most like to see them make.

David Silver asks: We now know that the Giants did nothing in the draft besides UDFAs for the offensive line. When you compare Runyan and Eluemunor to the original Glowinski/Bredeson pair, aren’t they roughly similar in dollars and PFF? Then they signed a couple of career backups with injury histories. We have the backup former draft picks who haven’t been good when they played, and starters Evan Neal and John Michael Schmitz, who also haven’t played well. Besides hoping players get better, have the Giants done enough to solidify the line, or are we in for another year of subpar play?

Ed says: David, the Giants signed five veteran offensive linemen with fairly significant NFL starting experience in free agency. Two of those players, maybe more, will start. They hired a new offensive line coach. They didn’t draft anyone, but I would say they have done a significant amount of work on the line.

It’s hard for me to argue with the first three picks, because they were all needs. Maybe somewhere on Day 3 they could have — and maybe should have — selected an offensive lineman. Where, though? Which player would you have given up. It’s easy to say they should have selected an offensive lineman. It’s harder to identify when it would have been a better pick than the one they made.